Lindsey Buchanan: Releasing shame and finding self-compassion

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Episode 201 with Lindsey Buchanan.

“ADHD doesn’t always feel like you’re the abnormal one — often it just feels like everyone else isn’t cooperating.”

Lindsey is an ADHD and executive functioning coach and a member of our Women & ADHD coaching team. We talk about the surprising way she got diagnosed (spoiler: her psychiatrist sister broke it to her), the relief she felt after finally finding her people, and how self-compassion has been a cornerstone of her journey.

We also talk about the role of exercise and how vital it is for ADHD brains, we talk about how Lindsey has moved past some of her shame spirals around lateness and organization, and the ways she now made a career out of helping others “unwrap their gifts” through ADHD coaching.

In this episode, Lindsey and I discuss:

•  Lindsey’s path to an adult ADHD diagnosis and how it reframed her life story
•  The role of family, genetics, and self-advocacy in her journey
•  Navigating shame, indecision, and societal expectations as a woman with ADHD
•  The importance of movement, exercise, and honoring your needs
•  How Lindsey transitioned from the corporate world to ADHD coaching
•  Lindsey’s favorite tools and strategies for building self-awareness and self-compassion, including values work and the satisfaction wheel
•  The power of community, asking for help, and redefining success
•  Lindsey’s coaching philosophy: helping clients “unwrap their gifts” and integrate their strengths into daily life

If you love this episode and you’d like to hear even more of how Lindsey became an ADHD coach, don’t miss Episode 200 of Women & ADHD, where she shares more of her journey.

Website: womenandadhd.com/lindsey

Links & Resources:

Episode 200

Allow Me to Interrupt: A Psychologist Reveals the Emotional Truth Behind Women's ADHD by Gilly Kahn, PhD

Lindsey Buchanan 0:00
I would forget to pack their snacks, for example, in the diaper bag, and we'd go to the park, and they'd be hungry for a snack, and I'm like, Oh, I didn't think to bring a snack, you know? And I would notice that other moms were really good at that, like they would have their little snack containers everywhere they went. And I'm like, dang, I wish I was better at that. I don't know why that's hard for me. I don't think through that far.

Katy Weber 0:31
Hello and welcome to the women and ADHD podcast. I'm your host. Katy Weber, I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45 and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens, and it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience, and now I interview other women who like me discovered in adulthood, they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, both professionally and personally. Hello and welcome back. It is so great to be returning with a brand new episode after a mini vacation, and before we get started, I'd love to share with you this review from Rachel in New Zealand. It's entitled, practical, plugged in and positive as a newbie to ADHD. This is an incredible resource that isn't overwhelming, but feels very Fave pair of comfy slippers. The podcast has the perfect tone, inclusive, accessible, warm, friendly and very authentic. It's hot chocolate with marshmallows for the soul, if you're a woman and struggling on this journey, validating and positive with lots of useful insights and a good dose of Virtual hugs. Thank you so much. Katy and guests. Ara Nui, I hope I pronounced that okay. It means big love in Maori Rach in New Zealand. Well, this review absolutely made my day. Rach chef's kiss. No notes. Thank you so much, and Big Love and Virtual hugs to you too. By the way, if you have been listening to this podcast and you have also found these interviews to be helpful, the best way to pay it forward is to leave a review so that other women like you can find this podcast at these conversations and know that they are not alone and they are not simply lazy or just depressed or somehow broken, but they have ADHD. So please take a moment to head to Apple podcasts or audible or you could leave feedback on individual episodes on Spotify. And if that feels like just too much right now, and I totally get it, you can also just quickly hit those five stars, in fact, before you forget, why don't you just pause right now and go do it. I promise we will all wait for you. Okay, here we are at episode 201 in which I interview Lindsay Buchanan Lindsay is an ADHD and executive functioning coach based in Florida, and she's also a member of our women and ADHD coaching team. Lindsay and I talk about the surprising way she got diagnosed. Spoiler alert, her psychiatrist sister broke the news to her, and the relief she felt after finally finding her people. We also talk about how self compassion has been such an important part of her journey, as well as the vital role that exercise plays for ADHD brains. And we talk about how Lindsay has moved past some of her previous shame spirals, as we call them, around lateness and organization, and how she now has made a career out of helping others to unwrap their gifts through ADHD coaching. I also spoke to Lindsay in Episode 200 of women and ADHD, where she shares more about her journey to coaching. So if you love this episode and you'd like to hear more from Lindsay, make sure to check out episode 200 as well. And if you would like to work with Lindsay, you can head to women and adhd.com/lindsay to book a free coaching consult. Again, that's women and adhd.com/lindsay L, I, N, D, S, E, y, and of course, you can find that link in the show notes. Okay, without further ado, here is my conversation with Lindsay Buchanan, Hi, Lindsay, Welcome to I Know this interview, it feels like it's been a long time coming, so I appreciate your patience, but also I'm super excited to finally, like, sit down and get the whole story, because I feel like I've gotten bits and pieces here and there throughout our conversations. So why don't we start at the beginning? Start at the your diagnosis and what was happening in your life at the time that you really started to put two and two together and think maybe this is ADHD,

Lindsey Buchanan 4:47
okay, yes, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. First I wanted to say so I'm very honored to be on the podcast, and I love your podcast, so thank you for. The work that you do. Thank you. Yeah, so I was diagnosed about like, I'm guessing, five years ago. I don't keep track of, like, exact dates and numbers in my mind, super like, clearly, but I think it was about five or six years ago, and mine was kind of, I think, a little unique compared to some that I hear where it wasn't that I was seeking out an ADHD diagnosis for myself that led me to it. What led me to it was my sister. We live near each other, and we spend a lot of time together, and she was looking into ADHD because of She Has young children, and one of her children is a boy, and she was just curious about some of his behavior that was really different from what we had experienced growing up. It was just the two of us in our family, two girls, and so his behavior was curious to her, and she kind of looked into it.

Katy Weber 6:01
I feel the same way as a bob of a boy, and I had brothers.

Lindsey Buchanan 6:06
What's happening? Long story short, she ended up realizing through her research that it was ADHD, most likely, and she's actually in the field of psychiatry. See, she is a psychiatrist adult. She sees adults and children board certified, but you know, that was the first time she really dug a lot deeper into ADHD, specifically because of her son. And when she was doing that research, she realized, oh my goodness, it's genetic. And I think that she said to me, she called me and talked to me on the phone. She said, I think I have it. I think our dad has it, and I think you probably have it too. Lindsey, and she explained to me why, and I was like, Oh my gosh, I never would have thought of that on my own. I don't think. I don't know. I probably would have it, would have come around eventually. But when she pointed that out to me and explained her reasons why, and then I started digging into it myself and doing all my own research, I was just blown away that, yes, I did have a lot of the symptoms, and it helped me understand myself so much better once I figured that out about myself and learned all about ADHD and what it was, and got the diagnosis. So I did get the diagnosis after I researched it for myself and confirmed that I really

Katy Weber 7:30
thought I had it too. Did she diagnose you, or did you go to somebody else?

Lindsey Buchanan 7:33
Oh yeah, I have to go to somebody else for, like, medical rules. What

Katy Weber 7:39
was it liked when your sister first said that she thought you had it, because I've, I've often talked about how my therapist suggested I had it over the years, and I was kind of insulted. I was sort of like, Do you really think I'm that much of a hot mess, even though I had been complaining about being a hot mess to my therapist for years? But, like, my misconception was so great that I was, I was a little bit insulted. Yeah, what did you think when she said that

Lindsey Buchanan 8:03
to you? No, I think I was just surprised. I didn't know a lot about it, and so I was just surprised. But I think she probably, she's good about, like, framing stuff. You know, this isn't the first time. I think the way that she framed it for me, I actually was I moved pretty quickly from surprised to relieved, because I think a lot of the questions I always had about my story and about why certain things were harder for me that I never understood, and I just thought it's just me, I guess. I don't know, I don't know why these things are hard. And I always kind of felt like I didn't fit in with people, like I would explain things, and they'd give me this look like, I don't know what you're talking about, you know? And so there was so many parts of my story in my life that kind of as soon as I started learning about it, all of a sudden, I felt like I was introduced to all these people who were similar to me, but I and I didn't know they were out there, and I didn't know I was in that group. So it moved really quickly into relief for me. I think, because it just quickly was like, Oh my gosh, these are my people. Like, there's a name for this, and it was fascinating for me. And she did steer me to podcasts to listen to, and stuff that probably helped, like that kind of started with women in ADHD type of information when I started learning about it. So I think that helps.

Katy Weber 9:41
Yeah, I'm always amazed at how the diagnosis in adulthood brings with it that emotion. I love how you said I was moved from I moved from surprised to relieved. It always amazes me how lonely it can feel before a diagnosis, right? Like you said, like, maybe it's just me, right? But also. Also feeling like a lot of the struggles we're having, everybody struggles with. So you don't think of the struggles as being unique to you or unique to your brain, but you think of the failure as unique to you, right? And like everybody struggles with this, but other people seem to be okay, and I don't, and that part is lonely, and I'm like, No, we've got it switched. We've got it totally switched, exactly. But even growing up with your sister, I mean, I imagine you were both very similar. I don't know if you were close growing up, but like, if you both sort of had a similar approach to thinking, or to executive function or whatever, like, it must have been harder to even identify it as ADHD, because you were sort of like, well, this is how people are, right? This is how my family is,

Lindsey Buchanan 10:44
the water that we swam in. I think, I think, you know, I've heard it explained one time, and it was really helpful for me that ADHD is a thing I don't know what to call it, where you feel like nothing is abnormal about the way that you're thinking about things. Like you don't feel that you're you have something and you need to figure out what it is, necessarily until, like, enough things stack up in your life that make you go seek that out. But it's more like everybody else isn't cooperating with the way that I'm doing everything, you know, it's not that like, I intuitively feel like I'm doing things differently, or I'm thinking about things differently. Yeah, it's interesting.

Katy Weber 11:30
Yeah, good point, true. And I think that's why it's like learning a whole new language after you're diagnosed and learning to just even like you said, like, understand why you're even thinking differently, right? Or what it is like, there's so many things that I didn't even think of as a struggle until I was diagnosed, and then I had that like, gut punch of like, Oh, yeah. Like, I really, really was struggling, and I don't even think I knew it, because you're too busy trading for water, right? Diving, yeah. Okay, so you got your diagnosis, and what are some of those things that come up for you when you look back over the course of your childhood, or over the course of your life, motherhood, all of that, because your children got diagnosed, then after you correct,

Lindsey Buchanan 12:16
yeah, I actually haven't, so I have sought out the formal diagnosis for my older my children are still young. They're 11 six. Yeah, that's true, so I'm working on it.

Katy Weber 12:27
Yeah. I like you. It's sort of the opposite, right? So many women are diagnosed after their kids, yeah? And for me, it was mostly Yeah. It was like, oh, okay, I've been diagnosed. Now I have to look at my kids and really think, what's going on, but looking back over the course of your life, what are some of the things that stand out to you? Where you say, Oh yeah, the signs were clearly there all along.

Lindsey Buchanan 12:48
Yeah. The thing that stood out that my I'll just start with the big one that my sister pointed out when she first brought it to me, was the difficulty to make a decision that I would have. So I would circle on big questions that I had, for example, like I thought I wanted to change in my career path, and I figured that out, like right when I started working. So it had been like 15 years that have thought about different possibilities of different careers that I could do, and I would interview people, I would kind of pursue it a little bit, pursue the idea a little bit while working in my current career. And then I would never decide all the way, like I would pull back. And so I did that over and over, over the course of 15 years, really. So she kind of pointed that out to me, that like that circling and like the difficulty with actually choosing something and sticking to it. She was kind of explaining to me how she thinks like that. I have a little more of the inattentive ADHD where I kind of get stuck in my head about things and, like, overthink them and have a hard time actually, like, starting, like taking this

Katy Weber 14:12
step to start that one small step. Yeah, right, yeah. Like making

Lindsey Buchanan 14:16
up my mind and deciding, and then, like, I have a little less of the impulsive type, whereas, like with us in our relationship, that you were pointing out, like it must have been interesting. It was you both have it, but you grew up together, but we were also different, too, in that she has more of that impulsive side. So she's always been really good at starting things and like taking risks and putting herself out there. She's better at that, so I think she has a little more of that, that portion of it, than I do, and so it's just interesting how we're all so different. You know, it's all slightly different, and it comes out differently for each one of us. But I just thought that was a big one for me. I mean, that's a big decision to. Think about for that long, and I would struggle with, why is this so hard for me to pick something else? Like, why do why can I hear people talk about just changing their career and just quitting the job and starting a different job? Like, why is that so hard for me? So that was one. And then when I learned about ADHD and about like, wanting to reduce the risk as much as possible to like. I had some of that where I wanted to know I was going to succeed before I started something different. There's a lot of like, all those things that I've learned over my whole life to cope that end up kind of they can hold you back, too, because then all of a sudden you're in this pattern of, like, you don't want to take too big of a risk because it might not succeed. So there is that, but there's, oh my gosh, there's so much stuff. As I look back over my life, like I didn't struggle in school too much. I liked school, so I like learning. Love of learning is, like, one of my strengths. And so I was fortunate in that. So school is okay, but really it was like for me, like, high school, college, college was really hard for me socially. So I think that, like, social emotional stuff was hard for me with other girls, specifically, like, as soon as girls got mean in like, middle school, that was so hard for me. I feel like I was, like, that very naive person who believed everybody was nice, everybody wanted to be friends, like everybody would tell you the truth, you know, and so it was really hard to, like, navigate all the social relationships of high school, college, and I would always feel like I didn't really fit in, like with especially with groups of girls, because of all the small talk and the interest that they would have, I felt different. Well,

Katy Weber 17:01
there's also, like, a lot of relational rules too, among cliques of girls when you're younger. And you know, I think probably this is very common with ADHD, which is like, not really understanding the rules right, and feeling like there was just, it was just easier to be around boys because they weren't, like, thinking about your tone, or, you know, expectations like, it just felt a lot simpler. And I imagine that's probably pretty common because of just having that difficulty with, like, relational language. Yeah, but yeah, I totally relate to that. Yeah.

Lindsey Buchanan 17:38
So I it took me a long time I feel like socially, to figure out who my people are, and to find my good friends, who I wanted to be friends with, and we had a lot in common. You know? I'm so thankful I finally figured that out. I think I was, like, in my 30s or something, when I started figuring that out, like I could be, I could be selective about this and not just hang out with everybody who invites me to and try to be friends with everybody. I could be authentic and just find like one person who I really enjoy hanging out with and focus on that,

Katy Weber 18:21
right? Yeah, that was one thing that always would confuse me until it wasn't until the pandemic that I realized I was actually an introvert. I always thought I was an extrovert, because I was very like social and gregarious. Now going and loved having conversations one on one with people, but it was in groups that I really, really struggled. And so that idea of like, the group of friends was never something that I could manage or appeal to me. But I had, like, I loved all of these solo friendships that, nope, you know, and they didn't really know each other, and I always felt like I was kind of managing them, and I always felt a lot of FOMO and jealousy of those, you know, groups of females that would like go on vacations and stuff or Yeah. But now I'm like, Oh no, it's really just a lot easier to focus to have a conversation with one person.

Lindsey Buchanan 19:08
We like to go deeper and like, just be authentic and let our hair down. The other thing I was gonna say is, like, just with work and just in general, like the time blindness stuff like, I would run late to everything. Basically, I would always cut it like, to the Y to the minute, you know. And I think that's very common, and it also adds, like, a level of excitement to your everyday life when it's mundane to be like, Okay, now I have to, like, race the clock to see if I'm gonna make it to my appointment on time. I'm just injecting adrenaline. And throughout my

Katy Weber 19:50
day, I was doing that the other day with the fridge. Ding. Sometimes I like, leave the door open on the fridge, and I try to do what I need to do with whatever food and try to get it back. In the fridge before it dings. And I was I was like, Oh no, the door made the ding sound. I've lost. And I was like, I've lost what? What am I even doing? Just had to laugh.

Lindsey Buchanan 20:10
Yeah, it's funny once you learn about it, but when you don't know about it, you're like, Oh my gosh. So I would like have a lot of shame around running late to staff, because I felt like I would get messaging back, of like it was a perception thing, like the other people on the receiving end of that, like, for example, co workers. I don't even know if it was everybody. Usually it'd be like one person would say something, you know, and it would be like a very big moral character failure if you had not realized you should have planned that better, you know. So that was a big one for me, that when I learned about that, and I was able to say to realize, like, oh, that's how my brain works, and I'm still learning like to release the shame when that happens, because it still does happen sometimes. I'm getting better, like I have more supports in place now for myself to not cut it so close all the time, but I'll still do it sometimes. And when I do it and there's like, a negative consequence, I at least can catch it like I feel the wave of shame coming over me, and I feel really upset and really exposed, but then I will be able to talk to myself and say, Lindsay, like you did your best. It's your brain wiring that makes that hard. You know that. And I'm giving myself compassion and like Grace around that, instead of just totally, like becoming overwhelmed and shame for the fact that that happened, I'll do that with appointments too. Sometimes, like, I'll forget about an appointment or not put it on my calendar correctly, like a doctor appointment, for example. And sometimes I'll have to pay. And I'll say, Well, that's the ADHD tax. Because I've heard people explain that that way. And I'm like, that's really good. That's a really good way. I know that's not positive, but at least I'm not saying, like, at least I'm not beating myself up now and saying, Geez, why would you do that? Lindsay, you're you should be more responsible by now,

Katy Weber 22:23
I think so many of these traits, because I struggle with those too still. It's not like I'm magically fixed after my diagnosis, or even after years of coaching and educating myself like I try, right? But obviously there's going to be things that happen. And like you said, you know, just having that compassion with yourself and having that grace with yourself, because yourself, because it is looked at as a character flaw, right? It like, and I think that was one of the things. I think with so many of us struggle with being late or for being forgetful. It's like people assume you don't care and, or that you are careless and, and I think for so many of us before a diagnosis, it's like that confusion of, like, do I not care? Like, am I careless? Like, I'm really feeling like, gosh, I work so hard to care and to show I care, and I'm actually quite a compassionate, hard working person, but it never actually looking that way on the outside. And that disconnect, I think, is where that shame really dwells. And so like you said, like, I love the fact that you like it. You literally just have to talk to yourself and be like, this is it's okay to make mistakes. It's like, the older we get, the harder we try, or the harder we are on ourselves when we continually make these same errors over and over again, not really understanding what they are.

Lindsey Buchanan 23:41
Mm, hmm, that's so true. And I realized, like, I've done a lot of work on myself with my, like, trying to have self better, self compassion so that, like, I've learned some tools that I use when that kind of thing happens now. So I'll, like, pause and talk. I will talk out loud to myself when I feel, I mean, you can, it's totally physical, this type of thing that I'm talking about, when you miss the bus and it's already left and the person gives you attitude about the fact that you missed it, there's, there's a huge wave of feeling that comes over me. So I can very quickly feel that. I feel it still, but then I'll, like, pause and be and talk to myself and say, you tried really hard. Like, I talked to myself. I tried to talk to myself the way I would talk to a friend.

Katy Weber 24:31
I was just gonna say, I sound like, it's like, re parenting a lot of the way, right? Where I'm like, one of the most important parts of parenting is repair, right? It's you're you're going to yell, you're going to lose your temper, you're going to do things you regret with in parenting, at least I certainly have done, but like, the most important part is to repair that relationship, apologize, acknowledge, validate, right? And so we're just, instead of doing that to our kids, we're doing that for ourselves in these moments. And it's like, yeah, it's going to. Happen. It's always going to happen. But, like, how am I going to respond? I think that is the most important takeaway. Yeah,

Lindsey Buchanan 25:06
yeah, it's huge. So I'm thankful for that. Learning that, and that's what, like, having the diagnosis has helped me get to I can't imagine if I didn't have it and I was still just not knowing why I did that. That was the best thing about getting this diagnosis, is that then I could understand why that was hard for me. And just understanding and having a name is so important, I feel like to then go forward. And then another thing I thought about with this, with what were those things? I looked back and saw, Oh, okay, was exercise. I have always loved Exercise and Movement, and I don't like sitting still all day. That was one of the things that was hard about me when I first started in my career, was that it was an office sit at a computer from eight to five is the standard. So that's very long time to sit still and focus and work. That is part of my ADHD that I like to move. I need movement of my body throughout the day. I need it to be able to focus. I need breaks. I need to get up and move around. And I also need to exercise every day. And I used to feel guilty about that, that I felt like I needed it so much.

Katy Weber 26:25
I was going to say, like, guilty toward whom your family, or just the time you took for yourself, or this is wild

Lindsey Buchanan 26:35
when I had her, they were babies. Ah, yes. And I would feel like I had to get my workout. It was like, life or death, yep. And if it wasn't happening for some reason, and I would, you know, say to my husband, like I have to work out. Like it would get kind of dire as the day wore on.

Katy Weber 26:58
Good for you, though, seriously, I mean, that is, that is some serious, like, new mom self care that I think, you know, like, good for you, even if it felt compulsive, like, I think so many of us, especially when the babies are little, just have that visceral like, I have to always be there, like your life is not your own anymore. And I think it's so important to take that time for yourself.

Lindsey Buchanan 27:20
Yeah, I so I had those competing messages in my mind of like I should always be there and I should not feel like I need to leave. Yeah. So when I learned about ADHD, and I heard somebody get interviewed who talked about how much they loved exercise and that they would they loved running, and they would do it every day, and like that. They just use that so much as a tool for themselves. I was like, that is what I have been doing all these years. I have used that and I'm so thankful our parents just so happened to raise us to appreciate exercise like they exercised, which is a miracle when that, you know, when we were growing up, that we had that modeled, I did feel like that was a normal part of life, that it was like normal to exercise regularly, and I had that in my routine. So that probably was the thing that one of the things that like, helped me survive the most up until I got the diagnosis and was able to, like, put more things in place to help myself. That was one that I always had, but I used to feel guilty about it, like I said, and so when I learned about ADHD, and I realized, like, Oh, that's really actually healthy. That's a healthy support tool. And totally understandable. I have just leaned into it now, and I'm like, Yep, I don't feel bad now that I want to exercise every day.

Katy Weber 28:51
It's not me. I I have no choice. I need it.

Lindsey Buchanan 28:56
Yeah, and I used to feel also bad, like I would want to walk around and do stuff sometimes during the work time. And I used to feel bad about that, like, oh, I should only sit here and work during work time. I had, like, strict limits on things. And so when I learned about ADHD, I was able to realize it's okay to do things differently. That was it. It was like I got permission for myself to do things differently, and I decided it's okay to work for 25 minutes and take a five minute break where you walk around and move your body and then go back to work for another 25 minutes. And I had never had that explained to me before, that that's a bottle you can use. And I didn't know about it really until I got the diagnosis. Yeah,

Katy Weber 29:49
this is a conversation I have a lot with my kids around ADHD is an explanation, not an excuse, right? Because sometimes my kids think that I'm too hard on them about certain things where they're like. You should be more understanding. I have ADHD. I'm not going to be able to do this, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, having ADHD doesn't mean you can't focus. It doesn't mean you can't do something right? It's just, it's what support tools do you need to get there and understanding that you're going to maybe take a different approach. But it's not, it's not an immediate excuse. I'm trying to think of a better word, but like, it's not an immediate write off where it's like, oh, sorry, I have ADHD, so my room is going to be a mess, right? Like, it's going to be that's just a one that's a particular sore spot in our home, right? But again, it's like, you know, sometimes it feels like I get into that argument all the time with my children about like, am I being too hard on them, and should I be more accepting of their ADHD? Or is it really about like, let's get to the root of what support you need and what tools and structure you need. And so, like you were saying with exercise, like, I think most elite athletes probably have ADHD I think a lot of them do. And you see that when they stop, you know, if they get injured or if they retire, they don't have that outlet anymore. And I think that's where a lot of that anxiety and depression and on we and malaise and what is my life purpose starts to come into play. Because it's like, it's so incredibly helpful for an ADHD brain, and I'm guessing, like your parents probably threw you into sports or some kind of activities just to get you to get you to calm down.

Lindsey Buchanan 31:33
I think so too. I think I was a little hyper when I was younger. Yeah,

Katy Weber 31:39
well, but even, like, one of the things I've thought about with hyperactivity recently, because even with, you know, looking at like the difference between girls and boys, and why our idea of what ADHD looks like so often is that little boy symptom and the idea of hyperactivity, it's all about the interpretation of what is hyperactivity, because I think it can be Physical, but it also manifests if you're not moving around, you know, you just start spinning inside, and it manifests as anxious thoughts and inattentiveness, right? And so it's like, I it was Gilly Khan's book that's actually coming out very soon, so I'll put a link to it in the show notes. She talks about the emotional elements of ADHD in women, and she talks about hyperactivity, like it's like this energy that has to be used and if it's not used up physically, it then manifests and needs to be used up mentally, and you start to have that those like mental tornadoes. And that's always how I think about it. Now, when I'm having like, anxious spinning thoughts, my first thought now is all right. I gotta go. I gotta move like I gotta move this energy out of my body. I guess that way of describing it as as an energy that needs to be expended, I thought was really helpful.

Lindsey Buchanan 32:51
That's really powerful. I agree with that. And I think Dr Hollowell has some good talks about that too, for with women and ADHD, and how it can be. It looks different in girls and women, the hyperactivity component. But I like that, the energy idea how it's like, okay, when I start to feel that like ruminating, starting to happen, or that, like for me, I'll, I'll start to feel like discontent about things like, oh, you know, I need to change this, or I need to get out of this. A lot of times. That's how I can tell I'm starting to start to ruminate. And it's one of those mental, like, energy storm type of thing is coming in,

Katy Weber 33:35
right? And it's like, maybe I don't need deep breathing right now. Maybe I just need to get out and go for a really, like brisk walk, you're

Lindsey Buchanan 33:41
being outside too, right? Yeah, totally, that's a big component.

Katy Weber 33:46
Yeah. I wonder how that one fits into because it's true. I don't

Lindsey Buchanan 33:50
know what it is, but I've read that too, that it is good for if you can combine exercise with being outside, it's like magic for your brand. Yeah,

Katy Weber 34:01
right. When I tore my MCL earlier this year, and I was, like, stuck on the couch, I was just, I was, like, fascinated, almost from like, an scientific perspective, how quickly my mental health started deteriorating when I wasn't able to, like, get up and move around. And I was like, Oh, wow. These are really, really connected.

Lindsey Buchanan 34:22
Yeah, it's a really big, deep connection happening there.

Katy Weber 34:26
But at the same time, at least I wasn't like, I felt like it was very helpful to have that information, right. Like to say, like, oh, okay, now I understand what's going on, whereas another time in my life, I probably would have just felt terrible. Just been like, I don't know, it's just me, yeah, maybe I'm just a terrible wife and mother. Yeah.

Lindsey Buchanan 34:46
You know, a lot of the the things that have stood out to me, that were things that were hard, that I didn't understand about myself until I got the ADHD diagnosis, are those types of things that are like expected of us as women in the roles that. We have so like, like, as I'm thinking through it all, I'm like, there's a huge thread here. Of like, the typical This is what a woman should be able to do. A lot of my symptoms that I didn't understand about myself are related to that. Because when I remember, like, especially once I had kids, a lot I would feel that a lot, I would forget to pack their snacks, for example, in the diaper bag. And we'd go to the park and they'd be hungry for a snack, and I'm like, Oh, I didn't think to bring a snack, you know? And I would notice that other moms were really good at that, like they would have their little snack containers everywhere they went, and I'm like, dang, I wish I was better at that. I don't know why that's hard for me. I don't think through that far. And then also, like dinner prep, I have always struggled with dinner prep and that time of the day, and just that, I don't want to do it. I'd rather be outside with the kids. I don't want to be in the kitchen, cooking, and I don't like cooking that much like, it feels stressful to me. And so I would describe that to other mom friends, and that's when I would feel like, I would get that look like, like, we don't really get why you're talking it's not that hard,

Katy Weber 36:20
yeah, but this is your purpose in life.

Lindsey Buchanan 36:24
Not that hard, yeah? Oh, or the

Katy Weber 36:27
yes, then it's not that hard luck. Yes, right? Well, I get that my husband loves to cook, because I think for him, it's like a way to escape. And so we always had an agreement from when the kids were really little, that I was like, I will take the children, because I hate cooking, and you do the cooking as a way to, like, provide for us, but also not having to be present with us. And it was like, worked really well, because I think for him, it turned into, like an escape, like a way to unwind at the end of the day, which was really nice for him. But like you said, for me, there was too much chaos. There was too much going on, there were too many instructions to follow, so I always missed one, and then I would screw something up, and then I would forget an ingredient, and then I just, you know, it just felt like there was way too much. I still don't really love cooking. I do like, like cooking kits. Those are I find very helpful, but otherwise I would much rather just my husband just took that part over. Thankfully. Yeah, luckily. How I, if I may, how was your was your spouse's reaction to all of this? Like, Hey, by the way, we all have ADR, my sister, my family, was he on board? Was he sort of, like, I don't know what you're talking

Lindsey Buchanan 37:36
about. Yeah. I mean, luckily, he's been supportive of it all like that would be really hard. I feel like, if he had doubted me or something about that, luckily, he was very receptive and like, trusts me about myself and what I what I think I have, and when I pursued it and all that. Now he wasn't like, Oh, I'm gonna dive in and learn all about ADHD with you. I

Katy Weber 38:03
bet it was the same with pregnancy too, right? Like, okay, I read 100 books while I was pregnant.

Lindsey Buchanan 38:11
I have a whole story I could go into about that, that I dragged him along to, but I won't do that right now. We'll get off topic. Yeah, so, like, I feel like we have a good yin and yang, or, like, a good, you know, agreement of that he's supportive. He was supportive of it and but I'm, you know, I'm the one who pursued it and researched it and did all the things to get the diagnosis and and I tell him everything that I'm learning. So he gets the information from me. He's one of those people that's kind of like very even keeled and not very like big swings emotionally or anything. So I think, though, that it's been helpful to him too. I'm gonna say, over the years as I've kind of slowly educated him about it in my own way. I'm hoping that it's helped him to understand me better and to understand things that, like I'm guessing, would have been confusing to him about our relationship, things I would do that maybe other wives that he sees don't do like the cooking example. Like, maybe he wondered why I didn't like to cook, and then when I was able to explain ADHD and like, how this affects my brain, I think it's helped him understand me better. So that's good. Well, I think there's

Katy Weber 39:37
a lot of layers there too, because I think it's like, not only is it complicated in terms of the executive functioning side, but then there's the shame side, right? And so like my husband, I think often he was also along for the ride, and would hear and still, like, has to listen to me talk about it endlessly and supports it, but would never actually do independent research. But he doesn't need to at this point. Boy. But like, I think it was, he never really understood why I would feel so much shame around things, too. And that's where I think, as a woman, it can be very so much more complicated, because so much of it falls into our roles, like you said, as wives and mothers and so like, if the example you gave of going to the playground without food, he did that all the time, but he just didn't feel shame about it. And so I think, like so much of it, is that load that we put on ourselves, which is, like, this says so much about what kind of a person I am, whereas, you know, my husband, I don't know if it's because he's a male and he's, you know, he was socialized to just never feel bad about himself as a white male. But like, you know, is that idea of like, he wouldn't think of that as a character flaw necessarily. He would just be like, yeah, I forgot the food. Oh, well, sucks for them. Good thing they have their mom. But, like, right? But if the same thing were to happen to me, there's just so much more baggage around a lot of that stuff, too. And I found that really hard to articulate. The beginning, I think, where he was sort of like, there's nothing wrong with you. And I'm like, What are you talking about? Like, this was, you know, there's all these things that I struggle with. And he was like, All right. So I think in some ways, the conversation around ADHD helped me understand that I was actually like a really great mom and partner, and wasn't paying attention to that, but seeing it through his eyes, almost that confusion was, has been helpful, I think, in a lot of ways. And I'm lucky, obviously, I think, like you said, like, not everybody has a supportive partner when it comes to the diagnosis, or at least, you know, a curious one who's sort of like, oh, okay, interesting.

Lindsey Buchanan 41:38
Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to learn more and more as I've gotten older and as I've been working on, you know, juggling all the things that we do with jobs and caretaking of children and things like that, to ask for help, more basically, from my husband. But I think it doesn't have to be that be our partner if they're not as supportive like I see, I watch what other people do, and I see other women managing their ADHD really well when they're delegating a lot to other people too. Like just thinking outside the box and like, how could I make this easier for myself? If I don't have I don't need to be doing all of this in this one way. You know, like, there's so many other ways that this could be done, for example, like cooking breakfast for the kids in the morning before school. If that's all stressful feeling and you're like rushing to also go to work and it's hard, but your spouse can't help you with that. Like, can I use paper plates instead of the glass plates, so that I can just throw it all away at the end, instead of having to clean dishes or having dishes stacked up in the kitchen that are going to be waiting for later. You know. So I feel like a lot of it's a game of like thinking outside the box of how else could we be doing all these things,

Katy Weber 43:00
but also simultaneously challenging. A lot of those inner thoughts about, oh, you're being terrible to the environment when you're using paper plates and, like, always having to weigh the pros and cons in the moment, which I think is also exhausting. Like, I think, like, even this idea of, like, what if I asked for help before I was struggling?

Lindsey Buchanan 43:20
I love that.

Katy Weber 43:22
But my immediate reaction to that is, Oh, don't be selfish, right? And so it's like that internalized voice that we carry with us about, like, No, we should be. We should have exhausted all options that of like, the moral righteousness be, you know, that exists there in terms of asking for help, I think is something that we carry with us a lot. I'm like, Why? Why wouldn't I ask for help? Now my favorite question is, who can I get to do this for me? Because I don't want to do it.

Lindsey Buchanan 43:49
Once you start figuring out that works, it's like, oh my gosh. What else can I do this with?

Katy Weber 44:01
I think back to society, even a generation or so ago, where women stayed with their parents, right or like, we lived closer to our relatives, and there it was much more of a communal, you know, it takes a village type of scenario, and I think we've moved away from that in the last couple generations, like when you were talking, I was reminded of my husband's aunt was asking me once when my daughter was a baby. So I obviously was not diagnosed at this point, but she was like, so how's it going? How's mom life? And I was like, it's really hard. It just like, tumbled out at me because I probably had had no sleep. She's not the kind of person I should have, like, been vulnerable around, because she was sort of like, huh, I don't remember it being hard. I remember that being like, a really easy time, and I was like, Oh. Like, just like, my heart sank because I felt so invalidated. But also, like, you know, they lived in a very close knit community on Long Island, and they all lived within a block of A. Each other, and they had so much help. So it was built into their relationships in a way. Like you said, if your husband's working or, you know, you can't immediately, like you don't have to hire somebody, the help is always there before you are having to even ask for it. And I think that that's was, it's, I feel like that's slowly being, you know, sapped out of the way in which we live our lives as as families in this country. That's so true. That's why I keep telling my kids now, I'm like, I am bringing back collectivist culture, single handedly, ironically, but I'm like, I am going to live with you, and I'm going to help you with your kids, and you're going to help me. Like, I'm like, none of this moving to the other side of the country, stuff like, I'm sorry. It just does

Lindsey Buchanan 45:42
not work. I agree. I agree.

Katy Weber 45:47
So I'm like, lay those messages in now before they get older,

Lindsey Buchanan 45:50
exactly, I'm gonna go ahead and train you up for that, I think too. Like we can do that in other creative ways too. Like I have a girlfriend who's really good about living in that communal way, basically, like asking for help with something if she needs it. And then it's amazing when, when a friend asks you for help, how that kind of like deepens the friendship. Because then you feel like, oh, okay, it feels good to be able to help somebody else, and then I can ask them for help. The next time I need help, it kind of just changes the dynamic. So I'm trying to learn that, like, it's okay to to ask a good friend for something that you think they could help you with, and then you this new system where you're where you're like, supporting each other.

Katy Weber 46:40
That's one of the things I always talk about with clients when it comes to, like, asking for help, even with their spouse, right where I'm like, you know, husbands, when you have young kids, like husbands feel really empowered when you leave them alone with the kids to make their own choices, and you don't give them this whole list of do this and then do that, and don't do this, and then, like, you think You're being helpful, but what you're actually doing is being controlling, you know. And so with a friend, it's like, it's a gift to allow them to help you, and if we looked at it more like that, as opposed to a burden, it has that like, mutually beneficial element to it, but I'm like, No, you need to just leave the house, turn your cell phone off, and your husband needs to figure it out. He'll feel so good about himself when you come he'll feel so like, what's the word? Like, victorious when you come home and he figured out what whatever he needed to figure out. But yeah, that's my advice to my younger self.

Lindsey Buchanan 47:33
That's really good. That took me a long time to learn too. And I remember coming back and being like, Oh my gosh. Like they would all be so happy. And I was like, I can't believe I, I thought I couldn't do that, you know,

Katy Weber 47:50
yeah, but you have to learn. I mean, it's yeah, it's but you think you're, you think you're helping everybody out by doing as much as possible and then giving them kind of the dregs of what you couldn't carry. And really it's the opposite. It's like, no, no, you want to offload as much as possible. It's your gift to the other people.

Lindsey Buchanan 48:07
Exactly. Everybody better, right?

Katy Weber 48:11
Everybody's when mom's happy, everybody's happy, yeah, exactly, all right, I can't believe See, this is what happens so much. I'm like, I haven't even asked you about coaching. Okay, well, if you want to hear more about how Lindsay ended up as an ADHD coach, listen to episode 200 because we talk a lot about that. But what is it? I guess you know that when you did get into ADHD coaching, what are some of those things you love to work on with your clients. You had some really good tips and tricks already that you were just talking

Lindsey Buchanan 48:45
about. Yeah, I think I love helping them figure out, like that, better a better balance, like when there's a certain area that's kind of off balance in life, whether it's like taking care of ourselves with our physical fitness or our health or the job, like having some kind of better boundaries to help the job not be so demanding of our time or of our whatever it is, our psyche like that we're thinking about it all the time, Finding the the the better balance to be able to bring the job back into the right proportion. I love helping with things like that, like I'm trying to think of the word for it, like that, integration. That's the word. I love helping people, like better integrate who they are, and like all those different areas of life into good balances, so that it's all integrated as much as possible. It's never perfect, but it's like, okay, this piece is getting too big. Let's get it back a little more down to the right, the size that you want it to be, so that you feel like you're the whole pie is working well for you. Mm. Yeah, that's that's one of my favorite things. I think when that starts to happen, and you can see, as a client's coming back, and they're like, doing this, the steps in between the times to do that for themselves, and then they I can see a lot of times, their increase in satisfaction with how their life is going, because they're making those changes, and they're getting things into the right positions in their life. Cool.

Katy Weber 50:26
Now, do you use like, a satisfaction wheel with your clients? Okay? I'm like, you keep doing the wheel. And I'm like, All right, I know I learned about the wheel from like, Integrative Nutrition element, but yeah, it is super helpful. I've never thought about like quantifying satisfaction, like that. That's so important to check in about that. I love that you do that. I think in general, with ADHD, we don't spend a lot of time looking over our shoulder at how far we've come. We're always looking forward at, like, what still needs to be fixed or tackled, right? And so I love that idea of, like, intentionally taking a moment and just saying, like, All right, let's, let's look at our satisfaction levels, and then compare them to where we

Lindsey Buchanan 51:08
were, yeah, and then see if there's just one that you can make, like, one movement, and, you know, a small movement toward the direction that you want to go. And it's amazing how just like recognizing it and then just one small thing in that direction can just feel so empowering. I feel like and like lead to the momentum to keep everything going in a better direction. So I love that. Another thing I really, really love that was, like, amazing for me to learn when I went through coaching training is values work like learning about what are my values as a person, and then being able to use that as a grid to make decisions that was so enlightening for me to learn for myself, and I think it's because of how hard it is for me to make decisions. That I found that tool so helpful. So I really love being able to share that with any clients who also I can see like, there's a lot of times like underlying stuff there may not be awareness of what the values are and like specifically, and how they rank against each other. And so a lot of times like what I noticed is when I would feel a lot of stress internally about a decision that I made. What I realized after I did the values exercise is that would happen when something was conflicting with one of my top values, and I didn't realize it because I didn't know what my values were, I had never named them, right? I didn't know you could do that. So once I learned them, I was like, oh, that's why I would feel so stressy about this decision. I mean, it was little things, but it would be like constant decisions you're having to make for your for your family and stuff. And the ones that would stress me out would be the ones a lot of times that were bumping up against my top values. And so once I knew that, I was like, Oh, well, is this more important than this top value of mine? A lot of times it wouldn't be. So I could say no to that thing. But without all that awareness I didn't know that was what was happening in my life. So I love being able to share that with other people. Yeah,

Katy Weber 53:27
that is a really helpful tool. I mean, especially, even just like we were talking about with the the baggage that comes with some of these things as a woman and as a mother and as a wife, where it's like, okay, this is like, your values are dictating whether you feel shame about a behavior that somebody else might be like, Eh, whatever, and and you take that with you, like a like a brick, wherever you go. So yeah, but even, like you said, like even articulating what your values are is a is another step that I think a lot of people just sort of assume everybody knows. And even if you have figured out your values, you still have to remember what they are in the moment. And so it's like just, you know, sometimes you have to take those self tests over and over and over and over again.

Lindsey Buchanan 54:14
But yeah, those are probably the top ones. I really just like any. I really like anything that my clients bring to me, just being able to hold the space for them, to feel like they have support, to be able to share whatever it is that's on their mind for that day. I just think that's so powerful for us in the ADHD community, because a lot of us have many of us have been through our whole life without even knowing we had this and so to be able to come, like talk to somebody else who understands ADHD and who can listen well, that, in and of itself, is really healing that process. So I really love that just being on. Able to create that space for somebody, one appointment at a time.

Katy Weber 55:06
Yeah, I think I just was thinking of how many women I've met who would come to me, either for coaching or group coaching or one of the other scenarios where it was like, Okay, I got this diagnosis now, like, let's fix me and figure out, like, how I can be the person I used to be. And it was like, well, there's actually you don't need to be fixed. So, you know, let's lose that first. Yeah, but watching that evolution of of ADHD, going from a disorder that you're diagnosed with to kind of being this essence of your personality that is this wonderful thing of that you can actually embrace about you, I think is always a wonderful evolution that hope most of us go through. I mean, if we if you didn't have to go through that, that's awesome. But I think for most of us, there was sort of that reframing over of like, Oh God, this is says all the things that are wrong with me. And now I'm like, No, this is also all the things that are right with me, right? Yeah,

Lindsey Buchanan 56:08
also what people love about me,

Katy Weber 56:11
yeah. Is there anything that you would say that you love most about your ADHD and, hmm,

Lindsey Buchanan 56:21
you know, I think what I love most about it is my empathy. I'm going to say because I have learned that, like a lot of us with ADHD brain wiring, are a lot of times like higher on the empathy side, and I do feel like I have really high empathy, and I'm thankful for that, because I like listening and getting to know people one on one, especially, I like being able to hear somebody else's story, and Like think about what life is like from their perspective, and I like being able to support people one on one. And so I think that empathy is really a good I'm thankful for that quality, because I feel like it helps me to just have richer relationships in my life and appreciate those relationships a lot, and it helps me in a lot of areas. Actually, I think it helps me with all the areas of life. And you know, it's like anything else. It always has an underside. Go too far to learn how to rein that in, not be like over, over, dependent on how everybody else feels, but, um, like, not absorb everybody's emotions, yeah, but I think it has served me very well with just my career and my Just relationships, friendships, family, parenting, like I love children, period. I think they're so funny to listen to. Like the things that they say, and I love how like straightforward they are. Like, there's no trying to figure out what they think about something they tell you point blank. And I think I really love that about them. And so Empathy helps with kids too, because they can sense, like if you really care about what they're saying, or if you're kind of checked out and just like going through the motions. And so it helps me do that

Katy Weber 58:33
well, and I'm sure it helps you be a fantastic coach. And so, I mean, I think that's also, like, such a wonderful part of an adult diagnosis too, is that ability to turn around and help others and do this wonderful job that you're now doing, instead of sitting at a desk eight to five

Lindsey Buchanan 58:52
staring at an Excel file.

Katy Weber 58:56
Not that there's anything wrong with that, hopefully there are people who enjoy that, but yeah, right, being able to find a career that is more suited to what lights you up, I think, is also so wonderful. So

Lindsey Buchanan 59:11
yeah, thank you. Thank you for saying that. And I agree. I think that is what makes me enjoy coaching for sure. Yeah, oh, you get to use this strength that you have and put it to good work,

Katy Weber 59:25
absolutely right? And also like it just feels great. I mean, it does everything about it so well. Thank you for sitting down with me and sharing your story. I know, yeah, we've talked about in episode 200 and also on our website, newsletter. Lindsay is part of the women and ADHD coaching team, so you can find out more about Lindsay at women in adhd.com/lindsay and you also have your own website too, right, which is Lindsay Buchanan, coach, Weber. Hmm, okay, I'll put it in the show notes too.

Lindsey Buchanan 1:00:01
Yeah, I'll send you, I know right to look it up. We'll put in the show notes. Yes, well, thank you for having me. It is really an honor and a pleasure to get to with you.

Katy Weber 1:00:19
I've always said my favorite episodes are the ones where listeners give back, right? And are sort of like to have said that they have loved the podcast, or learned from the podcast, or some way benefited, and then can turn around and help others with their story. And I think it's amazing. It's just a communal element, right?

Lindsey Buchanan 1:00:40
You're fostering your community,

Katy Weber 1:00:43
right? Is this giant, virtual, Golden Girls that we're creating here?

Lindsey Buchanan 1:00:48
I love it. Sign me up. I'm in

Katy Weber 1:01:02
there. You have it. Thank you for listening, and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the women and ADHD podcast. If you'd like to find out more about me and my coaching programs, head over to women and adhd.com if you're a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you'd like to apply to be a guest on this podcast, visit women and adhd.com/podcast guest, and you can find that link in the episode show notes. Also, you know, we ADHD ers crave feedback, and I would really appreciate hearing from you the listener. Please take a moment to leave me a review on Apple podcasts or audible. And if that feels like too much, and I totally get it, please just take a few seconds right now to give me a five star rating or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency, and they may be struggling and they don't even know why. I'll see you next time when I interview another amazing woman who discovered she's not lazy or crazy or broken, but she has ADHD and she's now on the path to understanding her neurodivergent mind and finally, using this gift to her advantage. Take care till then you.